Debate Liveblog

Not feeling pretty, witty, or bright, so set the bar low for me too, please.  Thank you.

9:02:  There's Gwen Ifill, saying she made up the questions.  She's under scrutiny too, since she is not objective (supports Obama) and has a conflict of interest (a book on the black political breakthrough coming out on Inauguration Day).

Palin stalks onstage blows a sharp little kiss.  For some reason this makes me think:  "Walk like an Egyptian."

She asks "Can I call you Joe?"  Biden greets her graciously.

First question:  was the bailout the best or worst of DC?  Biden talks abstractly about "the middle class," Palin gives concrete examples of how people will be hurt:  many of us have investments and wonder if our money will still be there.  Each makes a pitch for his/her head of the ticket having ridden to the rescue in the crisis.

Biden brings up McCain's assertion that the "fundamentals of the economy are sound" and Palin explains, "He was talking to and about the American workforce, the greatest in the world."

Obama:  96 percent of his votes have been party line.  Can't prove his commitment to bipartisanship.  "With all due respect, I do respect your years in the Senate, but I think the American people are craving something different, that new energy . . . "

Palin makes a wonderful point:  let's do what our parents said and not live beyond our means.  "We have an opportunity to learn a heckuva lot of lessons from this and make sure we're not exploited or deceived again."

Biden:  We let Wall Street run wild . . . John McCain favored deregulation "on 20 different occasions."

Palin:  Barack had 94 opportunities to vote "on the people's side" and keep taxes down, but he voted to raise them 94 times.  Biden rejoinders that McCain also voted for tax increases, and that some of the bills Palin is referring to were procedural, not substantive.

She now is able to recite McCain's reform initiatives.  She is far more relaxed and "being herself," emphasizing her record.

Tax jousting.  Biden says no one making under $240,000 a year got any kind of tax break under Bush.  "The middle class is the economic engine.  They deserve the tax breaks.  The super-wealthy are doing fine, they won't be paying more than under Reagan."

Palin pounces with "redistribution of wealth" and says small businesses will be paying higher taxes, leading to fewer jobs

She's armed with details of McCain's health care plan, the $5000 credit, "budget neutral, doesn't cost the government anything" unlike Obama's "mandate" which will be paid for by the government.  Palin cheerfully says, seeing as how the government's been runnin' things lately, you don't want them runnin' your health care! 

(I can't do this, I've completely missed Biden's response, Jacques is asking me insistent questions about his home village that indicate he's living about 50 years in the past right now.  I'm missing the debate.)

"McCain doesn't tell one thing to one group and another thing to another group."

Energy plan Obama voted for gave oil companies big tax breaks.  "I had to take on those oil companies in Alaska."

Biden says when the tax breaks were separated out from a bill that stressed alternative energy, Obama voted against them, McCain voted for them.  Biden speaks for a windfall profits tax, such as Palin pushed for in Alaska, says McCain wants to give them more tax cuts.

Palin's first adrenaline rush must be burning off; she's starting to race her motor and scramble her words a bit -- we can't let predatory lenders, like Putin, "rear that head of abuse."  "It's a toxic mess on Main Street that's affecting Wall Street."  

Palin doesn't want to argue about the causes of climate change; Biden insists it's man-made and that you need to know that to come up with solutions.  McCain has voted against clean energy sources, wind, solar, biofuels.  We should invest in clean coal technology and export it.  Drill we must, but it will take 10 years to get a drop of oil from it. 

"Drill, baby, drill" is music to Palin's ears.  Americans across the land are chanting that because we're "hungry for domestic sources of energy."  But the difference now here is really dwindling.  Palin supports capping carbon emissions.  Biden accepts drilling and is for clean coal and safe nuclear.  Mainly only a difference in emphasis is left.  

Gay relationships:  Biden says the Constitution calls for equal benefits as relates to rights of property and visitation.  Palin says "I am very tolerant and I have a very diverse family and friends."  The difference has dwindled here too.  Biden and Obama do not support gay marriage.  Palin says she and McCain would not do anything to hinder visitation and property rights. 

She's doing fine.  

Biden points out that Bush and Maliki are on the same page as Obama now; he says only McCain is not. He also says repeatedly that McCain also voted to cut off troop funding (a bill Biden had promoted) because the bill had a timeline in it.  "We will end this war.  For John McCain, there's no end in sight."

Palin:  "Your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq, and that's not what our troops need to hear today."  She reminds Biden that he'd said he'd be proud to run with or against McCain and that he'd said Obama wasn't ready to be president!  It's almost as if she's trying to peel Biden off from Obama and to say they have more in common with each other than Biden has with Obama -- such as sons in Iraq.

Unstable Pakistan, nuclear Iran:  which is more dangerous? 

Biden:  Iraq is not the central front in terror.  If a new terror attack came, it would come from the hills of Waziristan.  A stable government in Pakistan is paramount.  Help them build schools to compete for hearts and minds with the 7000 madrassas built along the border.

Palin:  Petraeus and Osama agreed on only one thing:  Iraq was the central front.  Palin pronounces "Ahmadinejad" flawlessly.

Obama's statement that he'd meet enemy leaders without preconditions "Beyond naivete, beyond poor judgment."  Biden:  "He did not say that. . . . McCain doesn't realize that Ahmadinejad does not control the security apparatus in Iran."

Biden is actually on the defensive.  Palin is practicing aikido on him by largely agreeing with him.  Both campaigns are now competing for the center, and at least on foreign policy and energy, their positions have become variations on common themes, with differences in emphasis.  They probably differ more on economics and health care -- and the larger or smaller role of government -- than on anything else.

Biden "would not have joined the ticket" if he hadn't been sure Obama was solid on Israel. 

If you listen, they differ most strongly about where to point the blame for past failures and about their lead candidates' precise records -- all really peripheral to policy and the future.  The huge ideological chasm between them is on taxation and on the role of government in managing the economy and social services like education and health care. 

Palin:  the surge principles that have worked in Iraq need to be implemented in Afghanistan as well. 

Biden:  Our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principles of Iraq will not work in Afghanistan.  "We spent more money in 3 weeks of combat in Iraq than we spent in 7 years, 6 1/2 years in Afghanistan."

Palin:  "McClellan [sic] did not say definitively that the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan.  The counterinsurgency strategy can."

Biden:  Lugar and Obama and I have been calling for more money and troops in Afghanistan.  McCain said two years ago that we'd already succeeded there.  

Intervention?  Biden ironically says "The American people have a stomach for success."  He's proud of his stand on Kosovo.  We need to do more in Darfur.

Biden said he opposed the war but voted to give the President war powers.  Palin:  "It's so obvious that I'm a Washington outsider, one who doesn't understand the way you guys do things.  Americans are cravin' that straight talk . . . why did you vote for it if you were against it?"

Palin:  "Government, get out of my way if you're going to mandate more things on me and take more of my money."  We're going to create jobs, reform Washington and Wall Street, and win the war.

"Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again [a Reagan echo] pointing backward to the Bush years."

Palin says that saying she wasn''t sure what the VP did was "a lame attempt at a joke; evidently nobody got it."  She's done a nice job of making light fun of herself and turning her outsider naïveté into an asset.

In the comments it's reported that Althouse thinks people are saying "Palin's fine, she's competent . . . *yawn* let's go to bed," or watch something more exciting.  The suspense here was watching with bated breath to see if she could hold her own.  She has totally held her own.  So people are like, "There's nothing happening here. False alarm.  No train wreck."

"Uncommitted Ohio voters" who are wired for salivation or whatever the hell it is they measure are responding somewhat more positively to Biden than to Palin.  Biden almost broke down when talking about his first family's car accident.  The listeners' estimation of Palin rises when she talks bipartisanly.  But the line seems to dive whenever the speaker changes, then to rise gradually, then dive again when the other person starts a turn.  

Only in the last minutes does Biden start talking about judicial philosophy and his opposition to Bork.  He also tells an affecting anecdote about Mike Mansfield giving him a different view of Jesse Helms. 

Palin says she's made bipartisan appointments as governor, and that she has a family that's very diverse politically as well as in other ways.

She's very sweet and friendly to Biden.  And he reciprocates.  She appreciates not having the "filter of the MSM telling people what they just heard."  If you listened to these two candidates, you could just vote calmly on ideology without rancor.

Comments

[RW Rogers]

Sorry for the confusion, Outis. I thought there were basically two statements and I answered them in order: I basically work by myself and always have, so the answer was "No." As to your previous moniker, yes I was aware of it but not the reason, if any, it changed so I just said "Yes" to the question. As to the other question which had not occurred to me, you're honest and he's not.

[karen]

Hah!! So, you like him better than Michael. And, i knew you sounded familiar:0).

~phew~

[Outis]

Ah. Clarity has finally been acheived. And don't we all feel better for it?

Amba, I feel marginally more opposed to Democrats because I opposed their prior core philosophy. (Put roughly, Government Good!)

However, it's clear now that Democrats do not have a core philosophy. They govern to maintain and expand their power. Thus they appeal to a particular constituency, and attempt to buy that constituency off. The Republicans do the samething, but have different core supporters.

Both parties want to expand governmental authority, because they want to expand their power. Democrats want to do this more than Republicans, but that's because of differing core supporters. But both parties are ultimately racing to the bottom, with no concern beyond themselves. Neither deserves anything other than contempt. Six of Pelosi or half a dozen of Delay, it's all the same.

[Robot]

Palin doesn't want to argue about the causes of climate change and they should invest in clean coal technology and export it.Sentence is GREAT.