Mote, Meet Beam.

These two quotes from Martin Luther are juxtaposed on ThinkExist.com:

“The word and works of God is quite clear, that women were made either to be wives or prostitutes.”

“Their blindness and arrogance are as solid as an iron mountain.”

(Luther also said:

“Anyone who can be proved to be a seditious person is an outlaw before God and the emperor; and whoever is the first to put him to death does right and well. Therefore let everyone who can, smite, slay and stab, secretly or openly, remembering that nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful, or devilish than a rebel.”

And:

“Nothing good ever comes of violence.”)

Comments

[sleipner]

Makes me ashamed I was brought up Lutheran - or would, if I hadn't rejected their philosophies over 25 years ago.

[karen]

Isn't he the Sweethaeart of the *Left*?

And... didn't he HAVE a mistress?

[reader_iam]

Well, it's not surprising that Luther was an intemperate man; it's part and parcel of his history, and I'd be surprised if it's not well known.

On the other, it's not Lutherans who want to turn back to the clock to the days of their denomination's founder. Even those Christians who DO seem to want to do that sort of thing aren't the ones burning embassies and seeking, with alarming success in some quarters, to drawn in warriors in an effort to establish a one-world religion.
The latter's motes don't compare to the beam with which the more radical Islamists would like to whack us all.

Just my two cents ...

[amba]

Karen -- you're thinking of Martin Luther King (he had more than one mistress BTW). This is Martin Luther.

[amba]

Reader -- I really didn't have any implications in mind. I was just looking for an elusive quote from Luther, and came across all these others that were so contradictory, it was really striking. He sounds like a very impassioned man who could assert opposites with equal vehemence, and I thought that was an interesting (and rather alarming) temperament, but I was just thinking of him as an influential individual, nothing particularly to do with Christianity.

He had a lot of bad things to say about reason, Jews, and women. He also had occasional good things to say about Jews and women -- but not a good word about reason. He said it was the enemy of faith.

[reader_iam]

"... but not a good word about reason. He said it was the enemy of faith."

That's pretty much Luther, to a "T". It's interesting to make that point about the reformation generally, which while it rightly wished to wipe out some egregious corruption on the part of the Catholic Church, it also was very anti-intellectual in many respects.

That's why I sometimes get a good chuckle when I hear that Catholicism is supposed to be so "unthinking"; had it been wiped out, I daresay that we would we have been in far worse shape, given its historical role in preserving learning, art, and all of that reason/human imagination/etc.-based stuff.

[reader_iam]

Also, I apologize for reading non-existent subtext into your post.

[amba]

ts historical role in preserving learning, art, and all of that reason/human imagination/etc.-based stuff.

And now, its sophisticated graciousness toward science. See here and here.

[eusto]

So there's Luther trashing rebels; but he himself was one. one crazy dude.

[amba]

It's sort of like Hamlet's "Let there be no more marriages." He was going to be the last rebel, like Mohammed was going to be the last prophet. What an ego it takes to think time and revelation stops with you!

[sleipner]

Certainly the Catholic church deserves some credit for the preservation of some learning and art, but never forget its history of suppressing (often violently) that which it disagreed with (including much science), and its hubris in preventing the learning and art that it preserved from becoming available outside its cloisters for so many centuries.

In addition, who knows how much early art and knowledge has been lost due to Catholic purges of materials deemed "unacceptable" by the presumedly pure and holy.

[reader_iam]

Sleipner:

Believe me, I don't forget that, ever, but it's always good to keep things in perspective. The pendulum swings back and forth, and right now I think the Catholic Church is getting less credit than it deserves (as opposed to other times, when it gets more).

And, frankly, a lot of the material "saved" from the mists of times owe their survival to monks who weren't considered pure and holy even by themselves.

As for purges--no doubt; but a lot of that material was lost by purges from without (sacking of monasteries etc.--again, often because they were seen as centers of corruption, which they often were, even by those within), not just from within.

The history of the church is complex, diverse and messy, because, well, humans are. Always have been. All of them. Religious and secular alike.

[karen]

I guess i assumed the King came after the Luther- my bad.

I don't know much about this fella- I like how you pointed out that he was a rebel, eusto. I'm glad you shortened your name- I couldn't spell it before w/out looking :0).

Re: the Catholic Church- reader_iam says it best... I bet it preserved more than it destroyed. I watched a 60minutes on a female Pope, supposedly. That was kewl. Who knows?