The Gamut on Palin [UPDATED IN RED]

As we speak, there are 906 comments and counting on this L.A. Times article about Palin's environmental views.  (She wants to delist the polar bear, drill in ANWR, but NOT teach creationism in schools.  Dammit, you can't trust any information around here.)  They're responses to the more general question, "Is Sarah Palin a good VP choice for John McCain?"  And they run the gamut.  Fascinating reading.  Just for example:

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Hillary supporters will not flock to McCain because of this. He chose Palin as a "novelty" to reinforce his false brand as a "maverick." Equal rights and equal treatment for women is not a "novelty." He could not have shown his disrespect for women more than by this stupid ploy. This is one woman (and Hillary supporter) who sees it for what it is. McCain just doesn't get it.

Submitted by: Terry

3:12 AM PDT, August 30, 2008

Hillary supporter and PUMA donor who is thrilled to have someone, anyone listen to us and react. McCain, you have my vote! I feel vindicated. You delivered the slap in the face the democratic party deserved for the cowardice, sexism and malice Hillary's candidacy revealed in its core.

Submitted by: wisconsinite

3:02 AM PDT, August 30, 2008

This was a great knockout punch to Obama. This woman is smart, full of experience dealing with big oil & has many wonderful ideas about energy, and building our economy. I was for Hillary, I never would have voted Obama, I am now so happy that McCain has our family vote. She is so great & Obama & Biden s faces said it all yesterday. They were in total shock!

Submitted by: Lynn B

3:01 AM PDT, August 30, 2008

The war ticket.War against Iran ,reinstitution of the military draft and the war on science from mooseburger lady.If anyone doubted the extremist views of McCain look athis vp pick.

Submitted by: joseph marcucilli

3:00 AM PDT, August 30, 2008

McCain obviously has contempt for women and the Republican Party has contempt for the United States. Has this women even read a book on foreign policy? I strongly doubt it. This is the person that should be one heartbeat away from the presidency? Are you all collectively out of your minds? Moreover, if somehow she were to become president because of McCain's demise or death, it is clear that she would be merely a figurehead and the administration would be run from behind the scenes, as it is now.

Submitted by: Ann Hedonic

2:47 AM PDT, August 30, 2008

Sarah Palin is Awesome!! She is a great pick for VP. I'm certainly not a feminist and i hate it when people vote for someone because they are a women or they are black or something. I believe in her because of what she believes in and because of what she has accomplished here in Alaska. She's fought corruption, pursued energy resources and made the largest government spending cut in the states history. I couldn't think of anyone better than Palin for VP.

And for those people questioning her experience, she has an equal amount to Obama. She's been a Mayor and Governor, while Obama has been a senator. Plus, the jop required executive experience like governors, more than that of a senator. They only go to the senate and vote on bills, governors actually have to work with government. I can't believe the media doesn't understand that.

Submitted by: Caleb

2:43 AM PDT, August 30, 2008

Talk about polarization!  Woohoo!  This is civil war!

Comments

[RW Rogers]

As Tyler Cowen at Marginal Revolution pointed out yesterday, "The more the word "experience" is repeated, no matter what the context, the more it will hurt Obama." As they say, read the whole thing.

[karen]

Am i the only one who thinks that she wasn't chosen because she was a woman but because she was the best Conservative who happens to be a woman?

Hey, Ben(the Tiger): High 5!!!!

[Ben (The Tiger)]

*slaps some skin*

[RW Rogers]

While I probably disagree with Palin on a host of issues, and undoubtedly do on some important ones, I do hope she does well because she makes so many people squirm, threatening their well-defined and equally well-ordered world, as well as their definition of "change," not to mention their view of the role of the "proper" role for women.

[amba]

McCain is more of an environmentalist than Palin; Palin supports gay rights (though not gay marriage). SO interesting!!

[amba]

By the way, has anybody noticed I've devolved back down to a sperm and ovum? Maybe I'm gonna be reincarnated ...

[Peter Hoh]

RW, it's also fun watching conservatives express their newfound respect for Hillary Clinton.

[RW Rogers]

Peter - True! Some remain off-message and continue to be die-hard Hillary haters (see some of Althouse's regulars). Once it was clear Obama would be the nominee last spring, the right's deep appreciation for HRC began rising. This is politics after all ;-)

[Melinda]

Ditto RW at 10:52. (I'm too tired to be anything but a Dittohead this morning.)

This won't change my vote, but it should be fun to watch.

Also, I want to try moose burgers. I'm gonna check out Ottomanelli's for some ground moose.

[Outis]

Palin is aimed at disappointed Hillary supporters, but not women as such. Besides shoring up the social conservative base for McCain she is also aimed at working class voters.

[RW Rogers]

Outis, it also won't hurt her appeal to economic conservatives that Palin blue-penciled out something like 13% of the Alaska state budget yet retains an 80% approval rating.

[Outis]

Prediction: I bet that the closer one is to knowing or being a construction worker, the more likely one is to like and respect Palin, regardless of actual political support of Palin or her positions. I wonder if any pollsters will look at it from that point of view.

[Outis]

RW, she also appeals to small government types like myself. (Not enough to make me vote for McCain. I might pencil in Palin for President though.) But those people weren't the ones threatening to stay home in huge numbers. They were more likely to either reluctantly vote for him, or (like myself) have decided that McCain is absolutely unacceptable regardless of what bone he tries to throw to us.

[amba]

(re the construction worker comment) i.e. how many degrees of separation (either vertically, in time, or horizontally, in association) are you from actual physical work?

[karen]

Demmit, Outis. That comment hurts.

[Outis]

[H]ow many degrees of separation (either vertically, in time, or horizontally, in association) are you from actual physical work?

Amba, I've done a little construction work when I was younger. That would be 20 years ago. I did some other manual labor around 16 years ago. My Dad did construction work for most of his adult life (often in a supervisory role but always in the field) and before that worked in strip mines in W. Virginia during WWII. (He was ruled physically 4F for military service - a great disapointment from which he never recovered, although it wasn't until years after he was dead that I figured that out.)

My brother has done all kinds of construction work and spent most of the last 18 years working as a stage hand for trade shows, which is also manual labor. (And a very cool job. It's the other job I alluded to.)

The brief time I did construction work (it was cut short by a car accident) I noticed two great things about it: first, I slept like a baby at night - probably the only time I've done so since actually being a baby. Physical exhaustion puts one to sleep, while mental exhaustion can lead to insomnia.

The second great thing about construction work is that you can actully see what you've done! Before working in construction I had worked for two years as a switchboard operator. No matter how many calls you take, it never feels like you've done anything. The same goes for much of teaching (although that occassionally has other great satisfactions), and sure as hell applies to the database and spreadsheet work I've specialized in the last 8 years. But by the end of a week building roads you can see exactly what's been accomplished, and know what part you've played in it.

[Outis]

Karen, which comment hurts? The one stating that I won't vote for McCain? I've been clear on that for some time. Here's a partial explanation why.

[Pastor_Jeff]

The second great thing about construction work is that you can actually see what you've done!

After volunteering for Habitat, I worked part-time in construction at seminary while going to school full-time.

I was back on campus briefly today with my son, and was able to point out several projects I'd worked on. I'll be teaching this Fall in a classroom I helped to build. It is a cool feeling.

[amba]

Didn't mean to demand your bonafides, Outis! (but you saw the i.e.) Anyway, it's an interesting question to hear anyone's answer to.

I always liked the thought of anonymous medieval stonemason who could look at a cathedral and think, "There's a stone I placed." Funny, but editing has a kind of craft-guild ethos about it. If you hear editors talking, they sound like they're on a shop floor or in a NASCAR pit, and you'd realize they're the grease monkeys of the English language. At the magazine where I work, I am still addressed ceremonially as "Copy" in the footnotes (especially by the old-timers) and I relish the anonymity of it, even though they all know perfectly well who I am.

[Pastor_Jeff]

Palin supports gay rights (though not gay marriage).

Another thing I like about her.

She blocked a bill denying benefits to same-sex couples, after consulting with the AG on the constitutionality of the law. Imagine that -- an executive (heck, any politician) actually concerned about whether a law is constitutional! And she carved out a reasonable middle ground that respects both concerns over the definition of marriage and civil rights.

[Christopher]

Benefits, I might add only for state employees. Civil rights for the rest of gay people in Alaska are closed off by the constitutional amendment she supported and gloated about supporting on Christian radio. This protected no one else in Alaska, and it wasn't her first choice to support those benefits remaining in place. Her consultation was to find out if their was a way to block them--there wasn't, so she didn't try. I'm sorry, but this choice and the spin of her being for "gay rights" has closed off the possibility of my vote for McCain. Who wants more "I have gay friends" types who when push comes to shove push you and can't find the decency in them to provide some way of making sure I can take care of my responsibilities to my beloved? Find some other friends, lady. As it is, if my partner gets sick, I have no way of providing the support he would need or even of visiting him in the hospital.

I might add that anyone who knows something of Alaska politics knows that deep down most are libertarian irrespective of party. That Palin so appeals to the Christianists disturbs.

[amba]

Thanks, Christopher, for adding that information. I'm finding undistorted information about her extremely hard to come by. It's all already spun, one way or the other.

[RW Rogers]

Christianists? Christianists? What's next, Republicanites?

[Christopher]

Amba,

I recommend the Anchorage Daily News and this article from Dec. 21, 2006 "Palin to comply on same-sex ruling". At least she's a constitutionalist, I guess. But let's not pretend she's "pro-gay".

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AS&p_theme=as&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_text_search-0=same-sex%20AND%20benefits&s_dispstring=same-sex%20benefits%20AND%20date()&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=_rank_:D&xcal_ranksort=4&xcal_useweights=yes

[Pastor_Jeff]

Thanks for the updated info on Palin. Apparently, her support is isn't. That's unfortunate. Still, I'm not sure how 'civil rights are closed off' by the defense of marriage amendment, unless same-sex marriage is a constitutional right?

It does bother me and it's wrong that gays have a harder time caring for those whom they love, but I'd like to find ways to address that problem other than redefining marriage. I don't understand the statement about not being able to visit a loved one in the hospital. Anyone can basically visit anyone. Are you talking about special accommodations, like spending the night, being there outside visiting hours, or extra considerations for the ICU?

As far as partner benefits, I suppose one solution would be to mandate benefits for any and all domestic partners, but that opens up a whole host of issues and problems.

That Palin so appeals to the Christianists disturbs.

That someone trots out the "Christianist" label doesn't hurt me personally, but disturbs me as a sneering and intentionally ugly epithet -- like 'feminazi.' I suppose, though, it depends on what one means by the term?

[wj]

I guess I'm just on a different page from everyone else. I thought the two most interesting (and positive!) things about Palin were
1) as a member of the State
Ethics Committee, she brought down the Alaska Republican chairman (and fellow ethics committee member) for his unethical behavior,
2) as Governor of Alaska, she declined the money that Senator Stevens had earmarked for the Bridge to Nowhere.

Words for and against things are important, of course. But actual actions speak louder. At least for me.

[RW Rogers]

I've read a couple of reports that Palin has been to Iraq more often than Obama. And she may actually have conducted negotiations with Russia, Japan and Canadian officials. Doubtless not very high level if true, but someone at the top of the Democratic ticket can't claim even that (unless photo-ops count). LOL! It's probably too good to be true, but the idea is highly entertaining.

[Peter Hoh]

wj, my understanding is that Alaska used the bridge money for other projects.

Me and physical labor: just spent 5 hours doing landscaping. Not in my yard -- this was a paying job, and for the next three months, most of my income will be from similar work.

[amba]

As for words and actions, a friend just told me that Palin is taking more credit than she should for shooting down the Bridge to Nowhere. That she did oppose it but someone else . . . Now am I to believe that without researching it from primary sources?

[RW Rogers]

I think you will find that when first proposed, Palin supported it. When the money came through, she canceled the project, diverting the funds to other allowable uses, saying the state would build it themselves without federal dollars.

[Melinda]

For the record, my father's worked in construction for about 50 years, and is only now semi-retired at 84.

He claims never in his life to have voted for a Republican. If he doesn't like the Democrat, he doesn't vote.

[amba]

Melinda? What's he doing this year?

He might be a bellwether.

[amba]

To my mind, the biggest single thing in Palin's favor: people in Alaska love her -- including many like Katie who started out skeptical and who may not match Palin's political positions stride for stride.

I will never forget that people from Georgia tried to warn us about Jimmy Carter. (People from Arizona, I'm afraid, have also tried to warn us about McCain.)

[Melinda]

Amba, I don't think he's sold on the Democrats. I'll have to find out if he's changed his opinion on the Democrats.

[Melinda]

I mean, I'll have to find out if he's changed his opinion on the Republicans. (I've smoked too much blog this week.)

[Outis]

Didn't mean to demand your bonafides, Outis!

I didn't think so. But it's an interesting and pertinent question given my predicition.

[Outis]

Also, I am not really someone who has spent lots of time doing manual labor. I've done some in my life, though, and don't look down on such work. In fact, I'd consider going back to it if I could make as much doing it.

[Peter Hoh]

Close connection to manual labor correlated to liking Palin? I'm going to say no, as Rush Limbaugh seems to love her, and I don't think he's done any manual labor in a long time.

[amba]

Christopher -- off topic, but one of those articles about Alaska legislation mentioned a "Resolution sponsor John Coghill, R-North Pole."

That is really funny.

[amba]

PJ -- I understand the word "Christianist," on the analogy of "Islamist," to mean "someone who makes a militant political movement out of his/her religion." ("Jewist?" "Buddhistist"? "Baha'ist"?)

[amba]

Peter: If ever.

[Pastor_Jeff]

Close connection to manual labor correlated to liking Palin? I'm going to say no, as Rush Limbaugh seems to love her, and I don't think he's done any manual labor in a long time.

I'm sure that Rush has a deep appreciation for manual labor now that he can afford to hire others to do it.

[Outis]

Peter, I said "more likely" not "direct correlation".

[Peter Hoh]

Outis, yes, when I looked at your wording, I realize that I did not reflect your words in my attempt at snark.

[Pastor_Jeff]

Talk about polarization! Woohoo! This is civil war!

I've had more fun in the last two days than in the previous 18 months of this election cycle. It's been great seeing liberals and Democrats tie themselves in knots over a successful, self-made woman who's politically and socially conservative.

She's power-hungry! She's pushy and impatient! She should stay at home! She can't love her kids! She's a beauty queen! She's an animal killer!

We wanted the glass ceiling shattered, but not by her!

[amba]

PJ: Look at what I added to the "Meeting Sarah" post.

[wj]

Oops.

As amba noted above (30 August 7:23 PM), Palin's credit for opposing the Bridge to Nowhere might be a bit overstated. Or perhaps just flat untrue.
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/
My mistake.

Combined with some other things that are floating around, I begin to suspect that a) the McCain campaign's vetting of this selection was closer to nonexistant than inadequate, and b) the prediction that there would be a different choice by the time the convention ends (which I had thought wildly improbably) might actually have a chance of ending up correct.