Leave it to the Spirit

Camassia on the difference beween . . . well . . . Will and Grace! And I'm not talking about the TV show, although ironically enough, it does have something to do with homosexuality, and Zach, that poor kid locked up in straighten-him-out boot camp who's got half the blogosphere up in arms (and who just posted the Draconian rules and regulations of this "Love in Action" program on his Myspace journal: no sleeveless shirts! No hugging! All sexual fantasies to be reported pronto to the staff! Yeesh!). Camassia:

Sometime last year, when I was still going to the Lutheran church, the local bishop asked my pastor to assess what his congregation thought about homosexuality. . . . I said something like . . . if you get into the ‘reparative therapy’ thing I’m leaving.”

It’s actually not because I think categorically that homosexuals never change. It seems unlikely that they will, but some swear they have. And perhaps more convincingly to me, some things about myself have changed that I never would have thought possible. So I’m not going to try to dictate what the Spirit will and won’t do.

It’s the way things change, though, that seems at odds with this sort of rehab model. I remember after [a] discussion about conversion . . . I reflected that, whenever the Spirit seems to have done anything to me, it’s usually been when I’m not really trying or sometimes even paying that much attention. It catches me by surprise. And that makes sense actually, because my will seems mostly to just get in the way. If I’m sitting there trying consciously to control or eliminate some aspect or feeling, then like a Chinese finger puzzle it only grips harder. And if someone else is pressuring me, my ornery nature takes away even my desire to do it. Don’t try to change me to make me into what you want, or worse, to just make me normal.

What's compelling about this is not the gay/straight question (those who do change, I'd guess, weren't gay through and through to begin with), but the refreshing observation that how and whether we change in fundamental ways, or not, is beyond our will. It's such a rebuke to the whole bootstrap ethos of the self-help movement, which is taking its lumps on all sides these days (about time, too!) -- for instance, in a hot-off-the-presses book called SHAM (stands for "Self Help and Actualization Movement"): How the Self-Help Movement Made America Helpless, in which author Steven Salerno takes potshots at the likes of Dr. Phil and Dr. Laura.

- amba

Comments

[sleipner]

Regarding the whole "ex-gay" movement - I believe it is possible for people who have had sex with men to stop doing so and only have sex with women.

These people are called bisexuals. Or delusional, one of the two. The latter category is only going to make themselves and whomever they end up with miserable for the rest of their lives, probably because they are hypocritically claiming to be "ex-gay" while they sneak off to the bathhouse every so often because of their intensely homophobic self-hatred. (to wit, Spokane's soon to be ex mayor)

The biggest problem with the whole concept is the initial assumption that "there is something wrong with you that must be fixed"

When I first came out, my parents tried to get me to talk to their pastor (Lutheran Missouri Synod) and a (Lutheran) psychologist, presumeably to fix my problem. I refused point blank - I have more self-respect than that, and I had known I was gay for 8 years before I overcame my parent's and society's brainwashing enough to come out at age 19.

What we really need is free, universally available, anonymous counseling for teens who are having issues with their sexuality. Not to push them in one direction or the other, but to help them understand the options and make their own decisions. And to prevent them from becoming one of the 30% of all teen suicides that are attributed to sexuality or gender identity issues.

It's sad that "helping someone understand their feelings" is always interpreted as "promoting the gay lifestyle" by the conservative christian types...

Sorry, rather off topic, but felt the need to rant a bit.

[amba]

Thanks for venting, Sleipner. I am fascinated by how early people know if they're gay or straight -- a strong argument for its being something intrinsic to the person. (And you can tell with little boys, too, when they're about 3, if you're a woman. If they're going to grow up to be straight they're coming on to you at 3, unmistakably.) Apparently there's a book that just came out of first-person stories called When I Knew.

A gay friend of mine once told me "It's not about c____s and c____s, it's about skin texture," which was also very striking.

[amba]

And you are totally right about counseling.

[sleipner]

I agree with that point - how exactly did I "choose" a lifestyle when I was 11? Pretty much from that time on I knew I was attracted to guys and not to women. I've talked to several guys who say they in the age 6-10 range.

Actually what's really interesting is that I just found out this year (I'm 36) that my MOM knew I was gay from 6th grade on...Wish she had mentioned it, would have made my early years a lot easier.

Then again, probably not since she's a rabid right wing conservative Christian - I think that was why they kept pushing "teen sex guides" written by Dobson and his ilk on me. Totally useless drivel, of course, spouting abstinence only until marriage.

[karen]

LOL. I'm a conservative, right-winged freak and I know it's pointless pushing those abstainence books; but, I will because I love my kids. It's not about the stain on one's soul or on the family name, it's about the grief of having sex with the wrong person.

I may be deluding my own self, but I remember my first boyfriend and how I so brain-washed myself into obsession I thought I'd die when it was over-- seven years later. He was emotionally abusive and used me mightly. If I can spare my daughter that pain, in any relationship she chooses... I will have done right by her.

[amba]

Karen,

How about teaching

1) way too much self-respect to let oneself be emotionally abused (although "love" is treacherous and sometimes a mighty adversary to self-respect -- and marriage is no guarantee against abuse!)

2) Abstinence from sexual intercourse before age 18, as the cultural norm and ideal -- at least give yourself time to know yourself first (you'd be surprised how many Europeans live this way, just matter-of-factly)

3) Don't ever sleep with anyone you don't know, trust, and care for.

This is my "moderate" position, short of abstinence till marriage. I think gaining a certain amount of emotional and sexual experience before marriage can often be good for grown women -- and for marriage -- but, first, I am for keeping "emotional" and "sexual" firmly joined together, especially for boys (girls will do this on their own if allowed to by the culture), and second, most high school kids are too young for it and junior high kids WAY WAY too young. It shouldn't be part of being "cool" and "popular." That's torture and leads to depression and even suicide.

[karen]

Thank you, amba. Of course, you are right. i wonder about the sexual experience before marriage thing, though. I had a lot of it ( good Catholic girl that I was/am). I just didn't have the knowledge needed to know better or the courage to say "NO". Even when you say no, it usually happens anyway. I figure if I give A a book "If YOU Really Love Me", by Jason Everett she can read information. We don't have sex ed. At our Catholic school. I've been very open with her. I'm just scared and have been, as she is a beautiful girl looking way too mature for 13. She's way stronger than I ever was and in terms of her self-respect, I think I did well in guiding her awareness. All I ever got out of sex outside of marriage was used and guilt. I was the one that made those choices, though and it becomes a very permissive habit, unfortunately.